Comments on C for Coding: Stackoverflow, Advertising and the Ethics of a Fre...

Only till my natural death could I tell which of w...

2010-11-03T17:48:21.291+08:00

Only till my natural death could I tell which of what I have been doing is right or wrong, so now I have to try to do well in everything, and then wait to die a natural death.

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If we do our thing with no intention then we will ...

2010-05-21T15:03:45.459+08:00

If we do our thing with no intention then we will definitely get the expected results.Instead if we are not at all concerned about the success of others and dont want others to get the results for their work, always preparing to pull their legs then we will be harming our own success at the same time.

Useful programming info.,here may also find IT inf...

2009-12-08T23:22:03.188+08:00

Useful programming info.,here may also find IT info http://www.only-for-students.blogspot.com/

William Shields - "Other than that I think th...

2009-11-24T04:59:24.227+08:00

William Shields - "Other than that I think the only ads I've gone out of my way to block are anything that opens a new window but those are fair game imo."

Really? What's your justification for blocking pop-up ads, and why is it so distinct from the rationalizations you are trying to refute in your post?

Heh - "Jimmy Hoffa". I'm Herman M...

2009-11-16T12:50:50.281+08:00

Heh - "Jimmy Hoffa".

I'm Herman Munster and I live at 1313 Mockingbird Lane in Mockingbird Heights.

I'd like to add one more argument against bloc...

2009-11-07T18:02:56.432+08:00

I'd like to add one more argument against blocking ads:

If you were the author of a product, you'd want people to see your advertising. You want the people who might benefit from your product to know it exists.

This is no defence for obtrusive, distracting ads - they're awful. But informative ads that get the message out about good products shouldn't be seen as an insult!

For my own part, I actually CLICK on ads now and then. If someone puts in the effort required to pique my interest, I will hear what they have to say.

But for that I will block ads that are highly distracting or performance suckers.

Very good points, I totaly agree with you.

2009-10-16T15:07:54.754+08:00

Very good points, I totaly agree with you.

Nice writeup, dear. Yes the content of the site is...

2009-10-13T00:51:22.973+08:00

Nice writeup, dear. Yes the content of the site is user generated but they need money to feed their ids and keep SO working. I've never seen ads in questions but the side bar ads are okay with me. Yes I'm little annoyed with the sponsored tags. They make easy to spot Flash/Fex related question because at the time there is only Adobe icon out there, suppose if MS come to sponsor SO and put Icon on all tags related to their technologies? It will be a complete mess.

So much noise from such a small part of the commun...

2009-10-05T07:53:26.186+08:00

So much noise from such a small part of the community, almost like they do care just a little about acting like assholes. Fear not, a piss weak contrived argument can quickly abate such feelings.

Yes, the rest of us feel like you're entitled to a more delicious piece of the pie. No really. I think you could find a really deep connexion with the 5 year olds at the playground, and they're not assholes.

If the ads bother you so much then go somewhere else. Why this need to create elaborate arguments for why you're still here?

A couple of things strike me about the conversatio...

2009-10-04T00:10:12.509+08:00

A couple of things strike me about the conversation going on in these comments.

First, I would bet money that many of those following the "gifting" model would raise hell if all of their favorite sites did actually start blocking them because they didn't look at ads. They would call it unfair and pick up the "content wants to be free" mantra. I don't agree with everything the author says, but I agree that you guys are just being selfish and then trying to rationalize it after the fact.

Second, I was waiting for a particular argument that never seemed to surface. I use ad blockers (FlashBlock to be exact), but it's not because I find the ads annoying or unacceptable. It's simply because the current trend of big display flash ads makes Firefox run like complete trash. I was so amazed at how much difference it made to run with no flash that it completely justified "stealing" from content authors. I admit to being a bastard, but I'm pawning it off on browser makers :) Fix Firefox, and I'll happily view your ads.

(Yes, Chrome is better, but there's no stable Mac version and deficient web dev tools)

Did you make a point here? I failed to notice any...

2009-10-03T13:23:58.901+08:00

Did you make a point here? I failed to notice anything.

@Vizier You are correct that it is not your respo...

2009-10-02T23:18:29.111+08:00

@Vizier

You are correct that it is not your responsibility to ensure that SO gets paid. This is why the people who do own the site have taken steps to provide a revenue stream. Since it is your computer, you have the capacity to opt out, but if you bend the system far enough that this revenue stream isn't profitable, SO's owners will have to pursue an alternate route. You then, actually, do become indirectly responsible (in the sense that I---another user---can blame you personally for forcing the developer's hand and adding some other, probably more onerous, revenue generation channel).

While other vendors do provide comment systems, the value-add of SO is that they pool the resources in one place. I know the hell of trying to figure out a problem in trying to run EA's Spore with my NVIDIA graphics card on WINDOWS... dreaming up the forums that could contain an answer for my question (and dealing with their usually-incompatible formats and features) is a less-necessary headache now that SO is in town. I wouldn't want to give up SO and go back to the old system of fishing through a dozen forums. Perhaps you have a clever idea of how to integrate these disparate Q&A systems? If so, I recommend you try to implement it (though I am unwilling to offer you any capital to encourage it, as I already have SO for those needs).

@a: The idea that all of the value from SO comes from the users is mistaken. The value comes from a combination of the users and the aggregation network itself. To re-iterate my point to Vizier, SO provides a uniform Q&A space in what was previously dissociated and harder-to-find knowledge. That's a value add. Saying it isn't is like saying "The value of public libraries only comes from the book donors; why should they have to pay fines if a book gets stolen? They're just reclaiming value they put into the system!"

@brad dunbar Suppose I want this content and don&#...

2009-10-02T23:09:28.140+08:00

@brad dunbar
Suppose I want this content and don't want some distracting not-really-content shit now what is your solution?

Fantastic essay, people need to wake up. The prote...

2009-10-02T22:11:38.859+08:00

Fantastic essay, people need to wake up. The protesters sound like spoiled little brats.

I LOVE the free sample analogy. That's exactl...

2009-10-02T21:58:29.367+08:00

I LOVE the free sample analogy. That's exactly what ad blocking is. "Yea, somebody pays for it, but I won't."

Also, ad blocking is completely at odds with itself. Blocking Ads is saying "I want this content and only this content so badly that I'm willing to cut off the author's means to produce it."

I've always felt that the sort of person that ...

2009-10-02T21:50:54.802+08:00

I've always felt that the sort of person that would respond to advertising is the same sort of person that would not know to install an AdBlocker in the first place.

In this regard, an ad-blocker serves as a sort of Darwinian filter. Ads are even more targeted at the hopeless boobs who are affected by them the most - and bandwidth is saved for those would ignore them.

I don't want the ads. They are unsolicited, of...

2009-10-02T20:19:37.748+08:00

I don't want the ads. They are unsolicited, often abusive and detrimental to user experience, not to mention privacy concerns (http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/09/online-trackers-and-social-networks).

What's with this bitching? You threaten to block me when I block your ads, you think it's fair? Okay, please do.
Blocking ads isn't always easy. It could be made simpler for everyone. Only if it matters of course. So let's add an http header specifying whether I accept ads. If I don't you either don't show them (and account for it in the design of your site) or show me a message saying that you need to make a living. If the site's not worth it for me, that's it. If I care enough, maybe I will consent to viewing ads. If I'm a regular maybe I'd prefer paying some money. Or earn some score in case of SO. Or something else... I wouldn't have to use sophisticated tools, it would be plain and simple, all or nothing. We could take this to the author of NoScript extension who's got burnt badly on ad blocking issues.

But if site owners are comfortable with status quo because there's enough people watching ads then please STFU, mind your own business and don't impose arbitrary ethical obligations on strangers.

Minor nit, viewing content without viewing the adv...

2009-10-02T17:51:03.522+08:00

Minor nit, viewing content without viewing the adverts is not stealing. Stealing deprives the owner of the item. A beter anaogue for adblockers would be copyright infringement (Creating a derived work without adverts).

Personally I have no issue with this. In theory people should /like/ looking at adverts (People telling you about things you want that will make your life better). If they don't for some reason then perhaps you are Doing It Wrong?

"But this is ME" -> "BTIM",...

2009-10-02T17:17:47.093+08:00

"But this is ME" -> "BTIM", not "BITM".

"advertising-supported web space" => ...

2009-10-02T17:10:19.571+08:00

"advertising-supported web space" => "an advertising-supported webSITE"

jason: The honour system is the wrong analogy. Bus...

2009-10-02T17:08:40.363+08:00

jason: The honour system is the wrong analogy. Busking is a closer fit, given the nature of HTTP distribution; and it's entirely ridiculous (although I'm sure it won't stop some here) to claim that someone walking past a busker - or even hanging around the spot the busker usually plays in hoping to catch a listen - without paying is somehow stealing music. The busker has already decided to be there, unilaterally, without precondition. He isn't bartering music for beer tokens, he is giving his performance as a gift in the hope of eliciting a financial reciprocation.

Like it or not, that's *exactly the same model* as advertising-supported web space - both technically (the HTML for the page gets delivered regardless of whether the user will subsequently fetch the adverts - necessarily, when the URLs for the adverts are on the webpage) and morally (however much SO's management are hoping for recompense, they're still delivering content without that condition, and *they know it*).

Now, by all means complain that unless enough people watch the ads or toss the busker a coin, the gift will go away and be missed. But you have to recognise that ad-funded websites are not operating in an economic climate conducive to gift cultures - quite the opposite, in fact; if your "business" model is based upon gift reciprocity, you are running a charity, not a business - and when you claim that listening to the busker without paying, or reading the site without the ads, is "immoral" you need to be explicit about which moral principles, in your consideration, have been violated. So far, I haven't seen that clarity.

@Billy Korando: last time I checked Wikipedia runs...

2009-10-02T16:14:47.364+08:00

@Billy Korando: last time I checked Wikipedia runs without ads... If they can do it, why not the other sites?

A clue? That sites costs money to run and therefor...

2009-10-02T16:08:57.420+08:00

A clue? That sites costs money to run and therefore I simply must look at ads if you decide so?

A CLUE?

It costs money to receive email too, but there's no need to look at ads for that. I paid money to read this article so I decide you have to look at my ads.

Usenet and mailing lists worked perfectly well. No one paid for that. If you build a site people like better, good for you, but you don't suddenly own the community.

"They also simply raise awareness of a brand,...

2009-10-02T15:54:22.458+08:00

"They also simply raise awareness of a brand, product or service. This is all about mind share. This one is subtle and hard to measure but if you see an ad or a logo often enough you’ll subconsciously recognize it." I can't for the life of me understand how you can use this argument to defend ads... this is the very reason why I stopped watching TV, why I installed an ad-blocker, ... Maybe it's a European thing, but I really don't like to be brainwashed!

I've never heard of ad blockers. Cool. Gonna...

2009-10-02T15:29:08.645+08:00

I've never heard of ad blockers. Cool. Gonna check it out.

Makes me cringe when somebody tells me I'm being immoral for not giving them money.